Schulz and de Vienne's history web blog is here http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
Old Goat
JoinedPosts by Old Goat
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The pyramids and rutherford.......
by atomant inlve been researching the early days of the jw"s and found some very damning information which needs to be discussed at length.according to my research it is claimed that early founders used the pyramids to work out important biblical dates that are now dates set in stone according to the beliefs of the sect and can not be changed as it would rock the very foundation upon which their beliefs are built.l was hoping for somone with a precise understanding to please elaborate whether this is true or not.
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The pyramids and rutherford.......
by atomant inlve been researching the early days of the jw"s and found some very damning information which needs to be discussed at length.according to my research it is claimed that early founders used the pyramids to work out important biblical dates that are now dates set in stone according to the beliefs of the sect and can not be changed as it would rock the very foundation upon which their beliefs are built.l was hoping for somone with a precise understanding to please elaborate whether this is true or not.
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Old Goat
This quotation is from Schulz and de Vienne, Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion's Watch Tower 1870-1887 (vol. 1)
They were introduced to speculations about the Great Pyramid of Giza at least by 1875.[1] How soon they adopted the view that the pyramid was God’s “great stone witness on the border of Egypt” is unknown, but it must have been in this era. As with so much else, claims made about Russell’s belief that the Great Pyramid was a secondary witness to the divine message are often wholly or partly false. One writer suggests that Storrs introduced Pyramidology to “the Millerites,” and that belief centered in Adventist bodies. Those who lack persistence and skill as researchers, the lazy and polemicists may have an interest in limiting belief to “fringe” groups, but this distorts the record. Pyramidology was discussed in America at least by 1861.[2] Believers were a diverse group that ran the spectrum from Astrologers to Thomas De Witt Talmage, a popular Presbyterian and Reformed pastor, who had “no doubt” that Isaiah’s reference to a stone witnesses on the border of Egypt meant the Great Pyramid.[3]Charles Piazzi Smyth, Astronomer Royal for Scotland, popularized and elaborated the theories of John Taylor, who without visiting the pyramid suggested that it was constructed by Noah. Smyth traveled to Egypt, examining and measuring the pyramid. He penned Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid which was published in 1864. It attributed the Great Pyramid to Melchizedek and gave it a scientific and religious import. Smyth’s theories gained a following among Egyptologists, not the least of whom was William Matthew Flinders Petrie. But when Flinders Petrie traveled to Egypt in 1880, making his own measurements he found so many flaws in Smyth’s theory that he abandoned it, calling it “lamentable nonsense.” By the end of the 19th Century no reputable Egyptologist supported it.
James K. Walker, president of the Watchman Fellowship, suggested that Pyramidology was “a major source of revelation” for Russell, writing that Russell admitted to this. As is true of most of what Mr. Walker writes, this is absurd. At least one writer claims that Pyramidology attracted Adventists primarily, and many claim that pyramid belief was rank superstition, occultism, or connected to the Masons. All of this is wrong, some of it out of context and some contrived. Certainly, Walker’s claim that Russell was dependent on pyramid measurement for his chronology is false. Ron Rhodes described Russell’s belief that the pyramid fulfilled Isaiah’s prophecy as “cornerstone component” of his belief system. This is also false.
In 1881, Russell wrote that he had “great respect” for the teaching of the Great Pyramid, adding, “We do not build our faith upon it. It has well been called ‘A Miracle in Stone,’ and it commends itself to us as a work of God, and not planned by men, for it seems in every respect to be in perfect accord with God’s plan as we are finding it written in His Word; and this it is, that causes our respect for it.”[4] It is no more true that Russell found in the pyramid a cornerstone of his theology than it is of Clarence Larkin, the Baptist expositor, who also saw the pyramid as God’s stone witness on the border of Egypt.
Russell was introduced to Pyramidology through his One Faith and Millennialist connections. Storrs, writers for Age-to-Come journals, and others promoted Smyth’s ideas and added thoughts of their own. Thomas Wilson’s Our Rest focused on the dual themes of Christ’s return and the Great Pyramid. Russell could not have avoided the discussion. The quotation above shows us that he read J. A. Seiss’ Miracle in Stone when it was published in 1877. Seiss published on the theme in 1869, but while Russell may have read that tract we cannot prove he did. The nature of the Great Pyramid was the subject of lectures, pamphlets, books and public discussion. If it later became the pet theory of fringe religion and occultists, it was not that in this era. We honor Isaac Newton for his science. We forget that when everyone else believed Phlogiston was a scientific reality, he did too. If he were alive today, we’d raise our eyebrows and scoff. Context is everything here. Put in context, Russell’s adoption of Smyth’s theory made him a man of his times. He believed it when others did.
Seiss, whose works are still published, is honored as a serious and scholarly exegete. Others of repute in the religious world found the theory attractive. A long list of favorable reviews of his Miracle in Stone appeared in the religious and secular press. The Illustrated Christian Weekly expressed some reservations but recommended it. The Reformed Church Messenger approached it in the same way. So did The Christian Intelligencer. Messiah’s Herald wrote, “We’re glad that it is being studied by men of learning and piety; and those who have a taste for study in that direction, will find many things in this volume to help them.” We do not know how Russell was introduced to Seiss’ book. He probably heard of it from various sources. The Pittsburgh Dispatch reviewed it, saying: “The lectures of Dr. Seiss are as remarkable for the polished beauty of their construction, as for the information which they contain. That mysterious pillar, the Great Pyramid of Gizeh, its relation to ancient history, modern discoveries, and Bible connections, are thoroughly canvassed in this volume.” If we are to fault Russell at all, it is for believing the theory long after its defects were apparent.
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1872 - The Evening Prayer
by wifibandit inmost jehovah's witnesses believe that the book called the three worlds, published in 1877 by n.h. barbour and charles t. russell, was the first publication charles russell took part in publishing.. that is not true!.
in 1872 five years before the three worlds was published, charles t. russell and his father j.l.
russell published the evening prayer.. thanks wtunderground!.
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Old Goat
Not news. There's a photo of it and a short discussion of the Russell's music publishing business in Schulz and de Vienne, A Separate Identity. http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/a-separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887/paperback/product-21546337.html
Their Web Site is here: http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
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Steven Lett asks for money again
by Gorbatchov inthe 2016 january tv.jw.org broadcasting has a clear message: jw.org needs more money!.
the 2 months of donation increase is not enough: the thousands of projects are not a 2 month project.. so: thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you (heh heh heh) and send us more!
personal conclusion: if i had any doubts that the society is sincere, this openly money grabbing has made my perception complete.
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Old Goat
He should return this personality to whomever he stole this one from and use his real one. He oozes insincerity.
He reminds me of an old time, pompous Assistant Company Servant who saw the movie Song of the South and adopted the mannerisms and personality of the old Black Man in the picture.
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What is the story behind this picture of Rutherford at a drinking party??
by EndofMysteries ini have seen this photo several times but never any back story on it.
was this at bethel?
was this before or after the prohibition?
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Old Goat
Robo, there's also the booklet Prohibition and League of Nations. I have that somewhere still, I think. -
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What is the story behind this picture of Rutherford at a drinking party??
by EndofMysteries ini have seen this photo several times but never any back story on it.
was this at bethel?
was this before or after the prohibition?
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Old Goat
Not a booze party. A beer keg would have the spout on the bottom. This has a pump on top. That's root beer. The glasses are root beer cups, typical of the late 1920s and early 30s. I remember them well. I'm nearly 90. I don't know the source of the photo. But conclusions made from it are wishful thinking.
There's another set of photos that show Rutherford sleeping on a tavern table, also taken out of context. I haven't seen those since I was a young man. The explanation was very tame. Humans have a tendency to see what they want to see.
Also, a sole source claim should be looked at with considerable suspicion. The former Branch Servant who made claims about Rutherford was a questionable character. He really wasn't on "our side" if we base our opposition to the Watchtower on the facts.
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What is the story behind this picture of Rutherford at a drinking party??
by EndofMysteries ini have seen this photo several times but never any back story on it.
was this at bethel?
was this before or after the prohibition?
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Old Goat
You have to be an old goat like me to know what that is. It's a root beer dispenser, once quite common (when people made their own). Alas, this is not a booze party.
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ATT: WARNING
by EJ257 inplease be aware of everything that is happening around the world at this moment in time.
this goes to anyone, ex-communicated, removed, serving, believer and non.
at this point in my observations i have realized many religions/ideologies know there is some sort "end of time" or a transition into a new order of living in this earth.
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Old Goat
The Prince of the Power of Hot Air has spoken! -
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This makes me sad.
by Old Goat ini have followed this blog and read the blog authors' book almost since it was first started.
http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
it seems they're shutting down their project.
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Old Goat
I have followed this blog and read the blog authors' book almost since it was first started.
http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
It seems they're shutting down their project. I think that's a real loss. Solid facts about the Watchtower's early years are scarce.
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The origin of the name and masthead illustration of The Watchtower
by Gorbatchov inthanks to the great "watchtower history" blog with historical information about the pre- and early bible students years, i became today aware of the origine of the name the watchtower and the masthead illustration in front of the old magazines.. in c.t.
russell's younger days, his mother and other relatives died and were buried on the family plot at the allegheny cemetery.. it must have been a defining moment voor the young ctr.
look at his inspiration to choose the name and masthead of his magazine.
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Old Goat
No one is suggesting Bible Students are making up stories. I'm suggesting you don't understand what you read. Bible students sell their stuff. Are they writing for profit?
I bought a set of books from the Chicago Bible Students paying about 220 US dollars for them. That's not publishing for profit?
I'm not trying to impress you. I don't need your adulation, and I'm not seeking it. But I do expect that you back up your 'stories' with some facts. You are unwilling and unable to do that.
example: "because there’s and old goat that suggest they’ve been lying for 15 years." Translation into English: "Because there's an Old Goat who suggests they've lied." Who mentioned 15 years? You don't understand what you read.
Bible Student histories with few exceptions are elaborations of an article Russell first wrote in 1890 entitled Perils Among False Brethren. They add gossip and some facts to what's in that article. That does not produce a rational, factual history.